A increasing group in France is rejecting the authority of the government and laws, following a conspiracy trend from the US and UK that claims people can choose not to follow state rules, Vincent Couronne of Les Surligneurs told EURACTIV.pl’s fact Talks podcast.
IN BRIEF: Disinformation in France
- Dominant narratives: related to the war in Ukraine, geopolitical affairs, situation in the West Bank, Marine Le Pen’s trial, global treaties (e.g. the EU’s deal with Mercosur)
- Main disinformation spreaders: any journalists, politicians, and everyday citizens, far-right conspiracy groups, “sovereign citizens”, professional disinformation spreaders (including politicians, esp. from the far right, sovereigntist, or populist circles, like Florian Philippot)
- Most common fake news: the court making a decision based on the opinion of only 1 justice in Le Pen’s case, ineligibility sanctions for politicians existing only in France, the government banning French citizens from utilizing rainwater in their gardens
- Combating disinformation: the activity of public agencies and investigation centres, fostering media literacy, force on digital platforms
In this episode, we dive into the disinformation scene in France with Vincent Couronne, CEO of Les Surligneurs, French media outlet specialising in legal fact-checking.
Karolina Zbytniewska, EURACTIV.pl: France has been 1 of the pioneers in the fight against disinformation in Europe. From your perspective, what are the dominant disinformation narratives circulating in France?
Vincent Couronne: Right now, I would say that the most popular narratives circulating in France are the ones we’ve been seeing for more than 2 years. These mostly concern the war in Ukraine, but besides any geopolitical chaotic situation in the world.
We’ve seen quite a few disinformation circulating about the presence of the French military in Ukraine, and about what’s happening in the West Bank, for example. So all of this is something we encounter frequently and gotta debunk and fact-check all day.
But also, from time to time, erstwhile there’s a major political event in the news, we see a surge of disinformation around it. Most recently, this afraid the trial and decision against Marine Le Pen in the case related to European parliamentary assistance and corruption.
Could you spill any beans about the legal case against Marine Le Pen? It seems very peculiar to the French disinformation landscape. And as you’re the head of Les Surligneurs, which besides deals with legal fact-checking, possibly you can tell us more than we might otherwise know.
Actually, the disinformation circulating about Marine Le Pen’s trial was mostly about the conditions under which the decision was made. For example, the tribunal was accused of making a decision based on the opinion of only 1 judge, which is incorrect—these decisions are actually made by 3 judges.
There were besides claims suggesting that ineligibility sanctions for politicians be only in France, which is completely false. You can find specified measures in almost all European country. So this kind of disinformation mostly aims to discredit the justice system.
At Les Surligneurs, we specialise in legal fact-checking. We verify what politicians say by comparing it to the actual law. Is it actual erstwhile we read the law? Or is it not? Sometimes the fact is more complex or nuanced. That is what we do, and we are the only ones in France, possibly even in Europe, specialising specifically in this kind of fact-checking.
This is the first time we have the pleasance of speaking with an expert in legal fact-checking. Are there many more legal cases you’re monitoring in France?
Yes, definitely. Most of the legal disinformation we see aims at weakening the credibility of public institutions. For example, disinformation may propose that the government makes decisions that are hard to believe or understand.
What I can say is that there’s besides quite a few disinformation about global treaties, specified as trade agreements between the EU and Mercosur. We’ve besides seen false claims that the government issued a decree banning French citizens from utilizing rainwater in their gardens. Obviously, that’s completely false.
But still, quite a few people believe these things, besides due to the fact that they circulate mostly within far-right conspiracy groups online. any of these narratives are very powerful—partly due to the fact that they’re amplified by certain French politicians.
Not very central or celebrated ones, but they do have an audience on the internet. And they’re besides pushed by abroad interference. So we effort to fight against this disinformation, which weakens the regulation of law and democracy.
One of my students from France, Julie, mentioned how frequently the law is utilized as a tool for political mobilization, peculiarly by populist politicians like Jordan Bardella and Marine Le Pen, whom you mentioned earlier. Have you noticed specified a tendency? Might this be something more peculiar to France than to another countries?
Yes, completely. I would say that 1 of the favourite targets of populists is European law—EU law, but besides the European Convention on Human Rights. There’s besides a group in France, which is increasing by the day and which we’re monitoring very closely. In English, we can call them the “sovereign citizens.”
It’s a trend that comes from the UK and the US, where people believe—and say—that the law adopted by parliament has no legitimacy, and that even the government or the president have no legitimacy due to historical reasons. They don’t feel bound by French law.
They think they are sovereign individuals and that they don’t gotta respect the laws of the Republic or the state. That’s a increasing movement in France. We even saw the police late conduct a raid on a building owned by specified a group. So it’s becoming, potentially, rather serious.
Looking at this from a more general perspective, do you see any institutions left that can inactive enjoy trust across political divisions?
We utilized to have, for example, politicians, experts, juries and courts, the media—institutions that enjoyed, at least to any extent, universal trust.
Are we past those times?
I think we are—at least in France. Media outlets are among the least trusted institutions in France. all poll, all year, all survey confirms this. Even national institutions—like the parliament, the government, and the presidency—are far from enjoying the trust of the majority.
Actually, the most trusted politicians in France are mayors—local institutions and local governments. The closer to the people, the more trusted they are.
At least, they are much more trusted than another types of institutions, including media outlets. But at the same time, polls show that a vast majority of the French say they want access to more media outlets, to more media pluralism.
They want media outlets to analyse and to fight disinformation. So even though they say they don’t trust the media, or trust them very little, they inactive want them to play their role—bringing the facts.
Let’s now turn to the subject of the actors behind disinformation and misinformation—both in terms of creating and spreading it, which aren’t always done by the same people. Who are the main actors behind the disinformation problem in France?
Actually, there are many different actors pushing narratives and spreading disinformation. The first kind is simply average people—citizens on social media, people speaking on tv or radio without much rigor. any journalists, unfortunately, any politicians, and everyday citizens who participate in public debate. In France, we endure from a very low level of media literacy and education on this subject. That’s a major issue, to be honest.
Then there are the professional disinformation spreaders. These include any politicians—again, mostly from the far right, sovereigntist, or populist circles. 1 example is Florian Philippot, who—unsurprisingly—is very aligned with Russian narratives and actively spreads them in France, especially through social media.
We’re besides clearly seeing abroad interference. Just yesterday, NewsGuard published an investigation revealing that, in fresh weeks, Russia carried out an operation in France, feeding false information into generative AI tools. These include tools like ChatGPT and a French generative AI called Le Chat, developed by the company Mistral.
That’s a serious concern. Disinformation created with generative AI is simply a increasing issue in France, and this peculiar operation, which has now been uncovered, shows just how real that threat is.
That’s truly interesting—especially for me, since I actively usage generative AI.
So yes, there was a peculiar operation that seemingly originated in Russia—one that had previously been carried out in the U.S. and Germany as well. It’s called Storm 1516.
That’s the name of this abroad interference operation, allegedly carried out by Russian activists who aim to spread certain narratives. What they do is feed generative AI tools—like ChatGPT or Le Chat by Mistral in France—with false information.
So erstwhile users send a request to ChatGPT, for example, they may unknowingly receive responses that incorporate narratives originating from this Russian interference. This is something we’re becoming increasingly aware of in France, and it’s a increasing concern we’re beginning to address.
Sometimes I have problem proceeding parts due to the online connection, but I think this section was clear enough. Now, to wrap up—returning to the Dascalia section—how would you specify the unique characteristics of the disinformation scenery in France? What makes it different from elsewhere?
That’s a large question—and a tricky one. I’d say the disinformation scenery in France is rather akin to what we see in another Western European countries—Germany, Spain, Italy, and so on. But 1 thing that’s rather circumstantial to France is the variety and number of actors actively working to combat disinformation.
For example, we have many fact-checkers—not just our own organisation, Les Surligneurs, but besides established media outlets like AFP, Le Monde, and Libération.
But beyond that, there are besides public agencies and investigation centres that survey disinformation and abroad interference narratives. 1 of the most prominent actors in fresh years is Viginum.
Viginum is an agency under the Ministry of the Armed Forces—part of the defence Ministry—and it plays an active function in identifying abroad interference operations.
There are besides many university investigation centres and foundations studying this issue. Altogether, this creates a dense and reasonably proactive ecosystem, supported by strong public policy from the French government.
From my perspective, the French are peculiarly strong in critical thinking—and generally, in being critical. Given those characteristics, how susceptible do you think French society is to disinformation and misinformation?
I actually think the French are rather susceptible to disinformation. Yes, we do have a strong culture of criticism and critical thinking—it’s profoundly rooted in our mindset and habits.
But I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s always methodological or structured critical thinking. Often, it’s more about criticizing for the sake of criticising. erstwhile you look at studies and surveys, France tends to score poorly in areas like mathematics and technological reasoning—skills that are essential for effective critical thinking.
That said, it’s not all negative. For instance, a fresh survey by the Fondation Descartes, published a fewer months ago, examined how susceptible the French are to abroad interference and external narratives.
And the good news is: the majority of the French population do not fall for narratives pushed by Russia, China, Algeria, and others. So that’s encouraging—but of course, we could inactive do much better.
You’ve mentioned that rather a lot is being done to counter disinformation in France—but possibly not always as effectively as 1 would hope. What more do you think should be done? What would you recommend?
I would urge 2 main things. First, media and information literacy—this needs to be promoted not just in schools and universities, but across all parts of society. Everyone is susceptible to falling for disinformation. Second, we request to hold digital platforms accountable. Right now, they make it far besides easy to spread disinformation and all kinds of misleading narratives.
You can learn more about the disinformation scenery in France here.
